From: Keith Garriott
Date: December 18, 2010 3:53:27 AM PST
To: Mari Tamburo
Subject: Re: [HEAR US] Evergreen Walk Report
Mari,
Well...this is the respect I get from dedicating my spare time to
ensuring the safety of all who use Evergreen Ave from July to present!
I indeed have a habit of pushing my proposed concept plan I revealed
at the August 17th community meeting amongst residents. I believe it's
the best idea to date concerning an Evergreen Ave plan for an ADA
compliant sidewalk and bike lane installation that addresses all who
access the street (which I unloaded to HEAR US files that are barried
back there somewhere). I challenge anyone to find at least one thing
wrong with it!
I knew you were against any sidewalk plan from the beginning. I
addressed to you at the August 17th meeting that your pathway isn't
going to work and why in front of everybody. I did that so you
wouldn't keep wasting your time pushing something that will not work
in the case of Evergreen Avenue.
I really don't know why you keep pushing your pathway to this day! I
really don't want to sweep rocks and dirt up in front of my house when
school kids and everybody else finishes using the pathway at the end
of the day, nor, I think the south side residents would either.
You don't live on the south side, so I guess you won't have to worry
about all the maintanence your pathway will cause to everybody across
the street from you.
As far as the people in HEAR US who don't like me...I DON'T CARE WHAT
THEY LIKE. If somebody is going to talk and debate sidewalk with
me...then they better have the facts straight! By the way, I have
plenty of people in Homestead who DO like me for what I'm doing to
make sure we get a fair shake in the end of all this.
(If you are really concerned about what your group thinks of me, and
it's true that they don't like me, then maybe you should just delete
everything that has to do with me completely). (And you call the HVCC
a club house???)
This is a serious matter to me with these proposed plans for Evergreen
Avenue. People's daily lives and safety are all involved, and I aim to
work towards a solution that benifits everybody, especially their
safety concerns. If I have to work alone then so be it!
I think I deserve a little more respect than this. Does anyone realize
that we may have been stuck with a 6 foot wide grey concrete sidewalk
running down the entire length of Evergreen Ave if it wasn't for the
petition I circulated which you didn't sign.
(And I'm tired of you excuse that the petition was based on promoting my plans.)
It had over 90 residents signatures. I could have gotten more, but
time was running short and something solid had to be presented showing
the residents had serious concerns for the impacts this new sidewalk
would've made!
I brought on the attention of local media to the concerns of residents
about this sidewalk dilemma, (which I shared with you also.)
Now we have the 1 year extension and 1 foot trimmed from the width and
talks about coloring the concrete a darker tone to match the rural
aesthetics of our street like I mentioned in my past emails to the
County and to my Homestead neighbors.
Funny how fast people forget the facts!
You have every right to believe in and push whatever you feel is right
and express your views (which you abundantly do when you get the
chance for the spotlight). I do appreciate your time and efforts you
put into this proposal brought onto our neighborhood from the
beginning, along with Charles and myself, but just because you run a
Google Group and a blog, doesn't make you the president of Homestead
Valley! (I believe I said that to you once before!)
Remember when we were all standing in front of my house in late July
talking about how everybody needs to get together and bring awareness
to those who don't understand the impacts that this sidewalk may cause
to the community?
I was sending out awareness notices back then!
I constantly keep you and Homestead residents updated on ideas and new
information concerning the sidewalk progress on my SaveEvergreenAve
Group list.
I appreciate your starting HEAR US in August and inviting me to join
(now for the second time from being banned).
I appreciate your invitation to have my own forum on The BEAT.
Let's either work together or not work together...I don't have time
for nonsense!
It's time to finish what they started!
Sincerly,
Keith Garriott
(Save Evergreen!)
aka; (The Local Southside Disturber)
[Somebody please try to resolve this dispute between Keith and Mari
(and sometimes Charles), if you can?]
Keith,
Yes - HEAR US is an open forum, noted by the fact that messages come
though without filter or comments/opinions before they are sent to
the list.
Sometimes there is a delay in when someone submits a post and when it
is posted. That is because I am currently the only moderator for the
HEAR US list and I DO need to sleep from time to time. When I find
someone wiling to share the moderator task, someone whom I trust to
not abuse this forum for their own agenda, (i.e., their own personal
sidewalk design or a campaign to repeal MHS' use permit) we will have
found an additional moderator.
Please allow me to restate my reasoning behind the HEAR US moderation
parameters : due to the large amount of anti-MHS sentiment that
currently exists in the neighborhood - and the many negative emails
that have gone back and forth over this subject and other issues
about the school, I find it in the best interests of our community at
large to keep things in the HEAR US list on an even keel. That is why
I do my best to discourage anything that even hints of negativity.
Keith, I'm sorry that you feel the need to get defensive - I
personally thought your last message to Hanne would have been better
with out the sarcastic comment, but I posted it anyway, because I'm
not trying to tell anyone "what to say or what not to say."
Mr. Sands - I find it disappointing that you choose to get offensive
and accuse me of censorship when I ask people to be polite to each
other.
Please don't confuse my requests to be polite and civil on this list
with censorship. As I stated in my email to each of you, sent
yesterday - I was responding to some feedback off list. I sent a
message to the HEAR US list asking everyone to be polite ONLY after I
received a few comments from other members of the list, who suggested
that maybe it was a bad idea to let you ( Keith ) back in the group.
I disagree with that, because I think it is important to provide a
forum for all sides of this issue. Please don't make me regret that
decision. btw - the comments I received were from some of the same
people who thanked me for banning Mr. Sands from the HEAR US list
several months ago.
By the way, Mr. Sands - HEAR US group discussion list http://
www.hvbeat.org/p/hear-us.html and the Homestead Beat website are
connected, but not the same - and neither are censored - they are
moderated. Just as YOUR email list is moderated. For example, there
have been several times I have requested you to share information
with your email list and you did not - oftentimes, when you do share,
you add your own opinions ahead of my information before doing so. I
could say the same for Keith.
Please also let me remind you both that in a community effort to
share information and get everyone on the same page, I have worked
many hours on my own time to create unmoderated blogs to archive your
saveevergreen.blogspot.com/p/about.html I have also created a blog
expect to add more as time goes on. All blogs are accessible from one
My motivation for doing all this work is to provide a forum for as
many viewpoints as possible in our community, in one central area. I
am of the firm belief that lack of complete communication has brought
us to this point of contention and complete communication is the best
tool we have to restore safety and serenity to this community.
And Keith - I know what I'M trying to achieve: Through sharing more
complete, unbiased, agenda free information with our neighbors, to
learn and arrive at the TRUTH - and, if possible, a win/win solution
to this sidewalk issue. We are still gathering information - so is
the DPW.
And for the record - Keith, I'm still not convinced we need one
sidewalk on Evergreen - let alone two. That is why I didn't sign the
petition that Mr. Sands wrote and you circulated in August and early
September. For the time being, I am suspending my own judgement for
or against ANY sidewalk or path until we receive more facts about
what actual safety challenges exist on Evergreen and the other
streets surrounding MHS.
As for me - here is where I stand at this moment in time :
MHS : I personally have no issues with MHS, but if MHS is the cause
of the majority of traffic and safety concerns on Evergreen, which it
seems they are, then it only seems fair to require that they adhere
to better safety procedures with regards to traffic surrounding the
school before we even consider spending $1.1 million dollars on a
sidewalk - otherwise - the animosity toward the school will grow -
and that will not help anyone, least of all the kids who go there.
Safety is more than just physical - it is emotional. I don't care
whose kids they are - all children have a right to feel safe and
welcome while walking in our neighborhood.
SPEEDING DRIVERS : If residents of Homestead Valley are the cause of
safety concerns, i.e., speeding along Evergreen, then let's work
together to address that issue directly. It has already been stated,
by several people, that drivers speed around the intersection at
Melrose as they turn right onto Evergreen - so let's install a STOP
melrose.html
- this would benefit both MHS and Homestead pedestrians and
bicyclists - sidewalk/path or no sidewalk/path.
SIDEWALK/PATH : Unless we can come together - as a community - to
find a reasonably "context sensitive" alternative to this currently
proposed sidewalk by the end of 2011 - something that is in
accordance with the TAM plan - there will be very likely be NO
sidewalk/path, of any kind, built with this SR2S funding.
FUNDING : If we, as a community, are not willing to spend our own
parcel tax money on a path that is more "context sensitive" than the
"out of place" sidewalk required to accept this SR2S funding, then
perhaps not enough "want" and "need" for such a dedicated pedestrian
path exists in our community - and none should be built.
According to the input we've received so far, it appears that to
build no sidewalk at all would be just fine with most Evergreen (and
Homestead Valley) residents.
As a compromise, perhaps Mr. Malvino's suggestion (July 21, 2010) to
clear the right of way and pave the shoulder would work :
Paved shoulders would improve usability for more people who use non-
motorized transportation (September 20, 2010) :
Best Regards,
Mari
On Dec 17, 2010, at 12:38 AM, Keith Garriott wrote:
Mari,
Is this an open forum or what?
If somebody wants to reply to a report made by someone else, and good
points are made in the process, then why should the person replying be
told by you that they should not say this or that?
I think this was an example of two way dialogue, wasn't it?
Maybe you should state that you want no replies to certain letters?
I thought we were trying to achive something here....
Keith
This list invites two way dialogue - please be polite.
Keith -
Please let's forget about the proposed 5' or 6' sidewalk for the time
being and allow our neighbors to share their experiences honestly and
openly without fear of backlash.
Hanne (and anyone else who would like to submit a walking/bicycling/
travel experience report about Evergreen.)
Please understand that when you add an opinion for or against the
sidewalk, (or dedicated path with protection,) to your report - that
there are some members of this list who will feel the need to debate
their views.
If we all just stick to the facts for the time being, interested
parties can collect data about the current walking and bicycling
conditions- then, we can have a more productive exchange of ideas for
solutions at a later date.
Thanks again for your participation.
- Mari
On Dec 15, 2010, at 2:34 PM, Keith Garriott
Hanne,
Oh, sorry, I didn't realize you didn't want to have any comments
replied towards the misconceptions on your daily report!
Oh, by the way, Evergreen Ave between Melrose and Scott @ Volunteer
Park is even narrower than the area I noted in the previous
email...and they want to add a 5 foot wide sidewalk there?
Keith
Sorry, I meant Scott and Melrose. The school's address is Montford
so I
always confuse Montford and Melrose.
My intention is to make a report to add to the other reports, not
stir a
debate.
Cheers, Hanne
On Dec 15, 2010, at 12:34 PM, Keith Garriott wrote:
Hi Hanne,
I just read your morning report for Evergreen Avenue traffic and
pedestrian interactions.
I was a bit confussed about your where abouts on Evergreen Ave
between
Scott and Montford....do you mean Scott and Hawthorne?
If so, then with parked cars on the road at that section of the
roadway
measures approximately 22 feet in width, the same as the desired
traffic calming senerio proposed to be planned for the entire
length
of the street in the DPW current plans to build a 5 foot wide
sidewalk
on the south side of Evergreen Avenue.
I noticed in your experience with two cars passing and then the
Prius
coming toward
you quickly as a car approached from behind while you were between
Scott and Montford (Hawthorne?), you have found that the most
dangerous time for pedestrians on Evergreen is when two cars are
passing next to them as the drivers seem more focussed on clearing
each other than clearing a pedestrian.
Well Hanne, what if you were a MHS student or anyone else
bicycling up
the street in that same senerio?
You stated the Prius suddenly stopped completely as did the
oncoming
car as they realized there was not room for all of you at that
exact
spot. The Prius then continued on slowly and the oncoming car
waited
for it to pass.
Had all as described not been on the street, both cars would have
been
able to pass each other without any problems. Had you not extend
your
arm, you may have been clipped by the Prius at 20-25 mph.
This would be the same case for bicycle handlebars extending into
the
right-of-way of the proposed narrowed road for traffic calming
effects
and the proposed narrowed road to accommodate the addition of the
new
5 foot sidewalk.
Now I agree with your statement of...If you had been on a
sidewalk,
with a parked car or not next to you when these cars passed, there
would have been no need to "defend" your space as a pedestrian.
Hanne, the current DPW plans call for a 5 foot wide sidewalk on
the
southside of Evergreen Avenue with on street parking and two 11
foot
travel lanes for vehicles.
Where's the room to safely bicycle and wheelchair access for
people
who need it on the north side?
Imagine your experience at Scott taking place in the blind curve
section between Linden Lane and Ethel Ave!
I think I can speak for all of the residents on Evergreen Ave
and in
Homestead when I say, "We want everybody who travels Evergreen
Avenue
to have the safest route possible no matter if you're: walking,
running, bicycling, in wheelchair, a car, truck, SUV, emergency
response vehicle, delivery truck, unicycle, RV, tractor trailor,
mobile home, etc,..."
Sincerly,
Keith Garriott
aka: (The Local S. Disturber)
On 12/15/10, Hannelore Barnes wrote:
Since this is a neighborhood forum, I thought I would
contribute my
perspective as an HV resident, Evergreen walker, and MHS parent.
My intention is to provide a periodic report of walking the
street
with my daughters and/or dogs.
I appreciate the earlier head counts of pedestrians on Evergreen
in the morning but think things may have been a bit skewed
given that
one day was the week of Thanksgiving and the other was a very
rainy day. Those
counts were certainly not in line with my own experience of
walking to
school in the morning, thus my own report.
Please keep in mind that I have young children who start at MHS
at 9am, long after kids are heading out of the valley to go to
school as well
as most of the children heading to MHS. If anyone cares to
provide a report
for the morning school "rush hour," I would welcome it. I
also want to
note that I do notice whether the cars are MHS or not as I
feel the parents
get an unjust bad rap in the neighborhood. It seems that any car
driving down Evergreen, especially an expensive one, is
assumed to be MHS and
that is just not the case, there are many people who live in
the Valley
using Evergreen to get out of Homestead as it is the widest
and fastest
way to Miller. And many of these people have expensive cars too.
I begin my walk at Linden Lane (where I have lived for over five
years) between 8:45 and 9am and walk up to MHS with my 4 year
old so I
only see half of Evergreen most mornings.
12/15/10 8:45am Report:
On our way to MHS, we passed two people heading out of the
Valley, one with a dog and one with a stroller, no bicyclists
(probably given the
weather). Given that it was a borderline rainy day, this is
pretty
typical. On sunny days we usually pass a lot more people with
dogs and strollers
and a couple of bikes.
The car experience was pretty typical I regret to report.
Most cars
drove the speed limit which seems fast but I know is actually
20-25
mph. Four MHS parents drove by me and six vehicles that were
not MHS, ten cars
total. Two of the vehicles drove in a way that illustrates for
me exactlywhy a
protected and dedicated pedestrian path is needed.
The first was a large four door silver pick up truck that
passed us at
20-25 mph with an enormous side mirror less than a foot from
my head even
though there was no oncoming traffic close to the intersection
of Scott
and Evergreen. I was surprised and frightened that the driver
chose
to drive so close to us, particularly my head, when there was
ample room on the
street for him to give us more buffer. We happened to be
walking next
to a parked car in the so I was further into the street than I
would be if
there were no cars parked. Walking on the strip on that
block is just not an
option given the uneven terrain and multiple surfaces/
landscaping.
Two more cars passed and then a blue Prius came toward us
quickly as a
car approached from behind while we were between Scott and
Montford.
I have found that the most dangerous time for pedestrians on
Evergreen
is when two cars are passing next to them as the drivers seem
more focussed on
clearing each other than clearing a pedestrian.
I extended my arm out from my body to give my daughter and I an
"arm's reach" of buffer space which I find helps to slow cars
down and
notice us. The Prius suddenly stopped completely as did the
oncoming car as
they realized there was not room for all of us at that exact
spot.
The Prius then continued on slowly and the oncoming car waited
for it to
pass, then proceeded towards Montford. Neither car was MHS
staff or parent.
Had we not been on the street, both cars would have been able to
pass each other without any problems. Had I not extend my
arm, I would
have been clipped by the Prius at 20-25 mph. If we had been
on a sidewalk,
with a parked car or not next to us when these cars passed,
there would
have been no need to "defend" my space as a pedestrian.
The walk back to Linden at 9:45 am was uneventful, there were
3 people
walking dogs heading out of the valley and two cars heading
into the
valley and one car heading out.
Hanne Barnes
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